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posted 10/8/2007
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mmiracle It's really a coin toss, they look like the same person. -
TheHype Oooh boy, this contest has been a long time coming ... I abstain from voting due to severe degree of biasesness -
FreeDarko You make me want to kill myself. -
missgossip uh yeah, I'll abstain too...
I'll take this with a grain of salt and an assumption that it was meant with some flattery. Hey, maybe whatever attention I can bring to the plight of "halfsy" types is a good thing...?
shoals please don't kill yourself! -
FreeDarko Gossip--
Only if your avatar stops calling me "white devil." Which would be totally cool with me if you weren't really Peruvian.
By the way, although my blog persona is an American Jew, I am actually a Mexican refugee from Georgia. The kind that makes you listen to X Clan.
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bohchris What am I, an ethnographer? I can only go off of half-assed guesses folks. But my apologies for my inaccuracies and perceived racism.
But yes, this post was written with nothing but flattery in mind. All I ask is that people who killed me on this but didn't read the post actually do so. It's not just straight objectification or misogyny.-
FreeDarko No, it's worthless drivel with some racist and sexist tinges.
If I wrote a post called "There are lots of shades of green, and they are different. . . gays give me the creeps" it would be the same thing.
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bohchris That comparison really doesn't make any sense. And you're saying racist tinges over something said completely with tongue in cheek written by someone who also happens to be mixed race (sorry I don't preface all my comments with my ethnic background, political stances, and religious views so that we know what's safe for me to joke about and what isn't).
Sexist? Sure, I guess if you want to read it that way (I think it's over the top enough that you should be able to get intent).
Frankly, I don't quite get how a community built around mocking idols gets uppity over one or two things that are being blown out of proportion. But what can you do?-
FreeDarko First off, if you're mixed race, I guess I take everything back.
Just kidding! That shit made me uncomfortable, despite my being a Latvian Hispanic on the run from Norman Mineta. I happen to support the destruction of America and preside over dog/person weddings, but I don't get offended easily. The point of a post like your should be to be funny, or satirical, or "over-the-top", which yours wasn't. It was depressing, boring, and mined a gimmick that it would've taken a better write to pull off.
There's this expression "playing with fire," and I don't really know what it means, but I think it's relevant here. That's my primary beef--your post failed miserably, and that's why the two or three questionable lines are getting attention.
By the way, I live in Wyoming.
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bohchris Actually, the point of it was to be satirical. But it would have taken a better writer than me to pull it off I suppose. Someone like you, capable of relying so easily on absurd imagery (dogs marrying people! get out! that doesn't happen! ow my sides!)
You can crap on me or the post all you want...it's your prerogative. The point is that you're getting all up in arms over something that had nothing to do with you. And your arguments are circular, flawed and based off of your opinion. So I can keep playing with fire, and you can keep attempting to be the righteous savior and we'll both be happy.
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FreeDarko Your face is circular, flawed and based off your opinion.
Dogs marrying people is no joke. It's destroying this country's moral fabric. Do some research.
Blogs are writing that other people react to and comment on; the blogosphere is the ad hoc community made up of bloggers. That's kind of the definition of something having something to do with other people.
Also there's nothing cuter than the "you're self-righteous" defense. If that were my problem, I'd be jumping all over people's posts on a regular basis. Guess what--I'm not!
I am totally kicking your butt in the +/- ratings on our comments, too. Which would seem to indicate that I'm not alone in my thankless struggle against you. And if it's my preogative, why do you keep responding?
Dudeifer, you have every right to write this post. Don't get it twisted--I'm not limiting your freedom of speech. I'm just encouraging you to do so in a way that doesn't backfire on itself. Surely, I can hold the 30th most popular sports blog in the world to some standard!!!!!!!
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bohchris You're confusing things. I didn't say self-righteous. I said righteous savior...meaning you're trying to stand up for Miss Gossip in the face of bold-faced attacks.
Which is the same reason I didn't want this silly little idea to be another self-promoting circle jerk. Guys on sports blogs love to fawn over any woman to cross their paths. Sarah Spain, Jenn Sterger, the Snorg girl...it's human nature, but it's sad. So how do you attempt to poke fun at that and the pat-on-the-back sports blogosphere? Mock objectifying women who are actually talented. Again, maybe I didn't do my job as a writer to convey that. But there is a point to this exercise.
I keep responding because, like you seem to be, I'm stubborn. And to let your opinion-based comments go because "Oh my gawd it's Shoals, he's funny!" despite a complete lack of logic isn't my thing.
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FreeDarko My bad. I haven't eaten yet today.
I'm not doing this on Gossip's behalf or whatever. What she does or doesn't do about this post is her business. I'm doing it as a concerned and outraged member of the blogosphere.
For the third time, I understand how this would be funny. I read all the folks you're badly imitating here, and I enjoy their stuff. This fell flat, and thus turned ugly. "Mock objectifying women who are actually talented" has great potential; bending Eleanor Roosevelt over the hood of an Escalade is a laugh-riot waiting to happen. Provided someone thought about how to do it first.
And if you think I'm funny, you're stupid. If I were funny, FreeDarko wouldn't be #50 or whatever.
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bohchris Nothing's turned ugly, no one was imitated...the little generic cheap shots you keep throwing out are adorable becaue you ran out of points a while ago. Point is, you just don't get things.
One of the contestants was my good pal Miss Gossip, who was accused of both faking her race and also of having an avatar that stood for white-hating shit like Common...But damn, learn a thing or two about race before making a bad joke about it. And for fuck's sake, pick a rapper WHOSE AUDIENCE ISN'T ALMOST ENTIRELY WHITE!!!!!
None of that's true dude. Because, get this, you've been wrong from the start and keep throwing shit against the wall, then say OH MAN IT'S OPINION BACK OFF BRO. And for someone so caught up on race, for you to say Common has an entirely white audience has to be the most ass-backwards thing I've heard in a while.
It's cool to not "get" things every now and then. I mean, I haven't "gotten" anything you've written in months (it can't be that you're just not funny any more, right?).-
hero to most Have you been to the Gap lately? Common's fanbase is even whiter than the Wu-Tang Clan's - and that's saying something.
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bohchris Fair enough, but I think he's still pretty big with the hip hop crowd too...I was at a Gym Class Heroes show at St. John's the other day and the mostly-Black/Latino crowd of 2000 applauded massively when they said Common was coming in a couple weeks.-
carter_blanchard I was at a Gym Class Heroes show
ahahahahahahahahahaha. Kills it. Conversation won.
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chone Not to pile on, but that's not really what an ethnographer is. And it's hard to back you when you titled the post "Who would you do?", and then say "It's not just straight objectification or misogyny." Pretty sure that's exactly what that is, even if it's supposed to be tounge in cheek.-
bohchris Duly noted on the ethnographer. I took cultural anthropology many moons ago and should know that.
The point was to make it over the top for that tongue-in-cheek quality. Basting them with male juices? Saying that we shouldn't treat them as people? I tend to think going so far over a line of misogyny brings it full circle, but to each their own.
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Jason To be fair, that Miss Gossip video montage was kind of cool. -
Atma Brother #1 Man this is just embarrassing for the entire sports blogosphere. And people wonder why it's so dominated by white males. We got some very talented ladies doing their thang and this is how they're treated? That's just nonsense.
bohchris- Rather than defending yourself with illogical nonsense that's just digging you in a deeper hole, how about posting an apology on your blog? Have some class.
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bohchris Apologize to whom? You? For what?
The people who were "on the receiving end" of the column know the deal. The indignation people like you feel over something because you don't like it gets nothing from me.-
Atma Brother #1 Apologize to whom? You? For what?
Maybe I'm being naive, but I have faith that you're smarter than that to ask such a dumb question.
The people who were "on the receiving end" of the column know the deal.
Um, what is this deal you speak of? Instead of having anything of substance (praise or criticism) to say about these women's creative work, you decide to publicly objectify them while showcasing your ignorance?
Before you respond to anyone and embarrass yourself even further take a deep breath and breathe. Maybe even try mediation in the morning. It might clear your head and stop you from publically embarrassing yourself any further.
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bohchris What it means, person desperate for attention and something to latch onto, is that I spoke to both women about the post and they got it (you see, "know the deal" is an expression used to mean "they understand what happened here). I don't really feel as though I need to justify that to you because I have no clue who you are and you had nothing to do with it.
But again, the chivalry by the guys in the blogs is so charming and not remotely transparent. No sir.
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dj fuzzylogic "on the receiving end" ?
So people who don't agree with you just don't get it like Anucha Browne Sanders didn't get it when Zeke called her a "ho." Whether you intend to or not, your utterances enter a discourse that already frames how we understand the terms of this language and the imbalances in privileges that go with it. Just because you didn't mean or because others heard it that weren't supposed to, doesn't mean it isn't messed up.
Just because some women may find the reduction of women to sexual object "flattering" (i don't know any who actually feel this way) doesn't mean that all women feel that way...and if you really think about what you wrote, basically you think cat calling to some girl on the street, soliciting her for sex is equivalent to a pick-up line of some sort. There's little satire, because satire would be some sort of critical inversion. Echoing what others have already mentioned, you do none of that... at all. instead, you make a lot of assumption that race is biological or that because someone's black that they're going to respond in X way just based on how they look.
As we can tell from your blog post, race hasn't disappeared in the 21st century...
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dmothe30 I'm late to the party here, but I'll throw my two cents in...
Boh, I appreciate a good lampooning as much as anyone, but I'll admit I was surprised when I opened up my email this morning and had a link to this "contest."
Just my two cents: It was in bad taste, and I'd feel guilty supporting that. Certain lines shouldn't be crossed, I suppose. Fart jokes? Good. Videos of drunk fans falling in stands? Good. Setting up a contest like this -- and I'm assuming here -- without telling the women involved you're doing it first? Not so much.
A key difference between the men's contest you mentioned and this one: All of us clowns who were in it... signed up.
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bohchris You're right on that point...I should have given them a heads up (whether I was going to go ahead with their okay or not). And I apologized to the both of them for not doing that.
But we spoke to both women right after the post went up, attempted to explain the logic, and were told there wasn't a problem with it (and one problem both girls had with it was taken out).
Guys here are blowing this out of proportion (not you dmothe) because they want to play big brother or whatever. Which is fine. But the cheap shots and "you need to apologize" stuff when they have nothing to do with it and the affected parties weren't opposed is just dumb to me.
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dmothe30 Sounds fair enough... definitely some poor judgement in retrospect, but it sounds like you're owning that much.
Again, I'm not trying to play Keeper of the Blogs here, either. But when somebody goofs, bad feedback should be expected. We all make a buck (or at least a hobby) out of at least occasionally providing criticism on sports journalism. We should expect the same.
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You Been Blinded i'm with dmothe. i found it disrespectful and unneccesary. the (perceived) racism and sexism was for what? -
Scrap So let me get this straight? And this is not a defense of anyone here, I just want to get something cleared up. It's ok to objectify women (i.e. athletes) as long as we have no personal ties to them. You Been Blinded has done this in the past (objectified women), as have others who commented here. But if its a writer (who I personally asked if they had a problem with the post, I would take it down immediately) then there is a problem? I am sure none of you read With Leather or click on links to female athletes in scant clothing in the past right (Amanda Beard), right? Just offering up a thought regarding this whole conversation. Good discussion (for the most part).-
You Been Blinded You Been Blinded has not done this. While I did do this, comparing it to this post is a reach. The tone of my post is completely different from the BOH post. Thanks for the shout out though.
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bohchris It's a case of objectifying professional women working in journalism and sports versus professional women working in new media journalism. The only difference is that one group you may know personally, the other you don't.
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FreeDarko Sorry to duck out--I've been busy having sex for the last two days.
Objectification is offensive. Offensive can be funny, in part because it's offensive, in part because it's true. But if it's not done well, it's just offensive. So the lesson is, be a good writer, and if you aren't, recognize it and don't set yourself up for disaster.
I LOLOLOLOLOLLLOLO-ed when Ufford wrote the following: "Congratulations on the montage, Gossip. I would totally do you." That was funny, pitch-perfect, and did in one sentence what (I think) the initial post tried to do in several hundred.
You know what, though, my real arch-enemy here is bad writing. The Holy Bible got millions of people killed, but I can't hate because there's some really dope prose in there.
A chick blogger Who Would You Do
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Your editor often likes to share himself with other sites. Because sharing is caring. Today, Chris is featured on Epic Carnival doing something related to having people vote on which female blogger they'd rather sleep with. You know, the important things in journalism.
The Sports Blog community is, surprisingly, as teeming with women as it is with recycled jokes and link requests. Some of the girls had their chance recently to judge the boys of blogging, so now it's your turn to objectify them right back. Because women really aren't objectified enough in society. more>> ...
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... of course, is why the blogosphere is blasted in the first place. It's not because some of us are frequently obnoxious or peddle in the misery of others, although that is certainly true. It's because some of us are obnoxious and popular , which makes us relevant. And when you're not clued in to something that's new and relevant, said relevant thing can be scurrrry . Nevertheless, I get the gripes. I've taken serious exception to a few things in the past, the biggest of which was a "Who would you do" segment that pitted female sports bloggers against each other in a contest ...
